Navigating Faith and Risk: Lessons from the Bible

Hunter Pettis (: 00:02

Welcome to ARM's Let's Talk Solutions podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Pettis. And in this podcast, we're going to talk about solutions to risks, hazards, and issues that matter to our ministries. It's early morning and the sky is heavy with dark clouds. A man stands on the deck of a massive ship, gazing out at the rising waves. He spent decades of his life preparing for this moment.

building, planning, trusting. Behind him are his family and the future of humanity itself. Ahead of him, uncertainty. Will the rain stop, or are cold, and will God fulfill his promise? This man is Noah, a familiar name in the stories of faith. But Noah wasn't just a man of faith, he was a man of action.

He didn't just trust that God would save him. He worked tirelessly to manage the risk placed before him. As Seventh-day Adventists, we often find ourselves facing storms. They present themselves as challenges in our personal lives, our churches, and even our communities. Like Noah, we are called to trust in God, but also to prepare and to steward wisely. But how do we balance faith with action?

How do we navigate life's risk in a way that honors God while protecting what he's entrusted to us? Today, we're exploring these questions through the lens of scripture and the principles of risk management. We'll uncover how faith in God doesn't mean ignoring risk. Welcome back to another episode of Less Talk Solutions. I'm your host, Antrepedes, and in today's episode, we'll dive into powerful intersection of faith.

and risk as seen in the Bible. Together we'll learn how their stories can guide us to make wise decisions as risk managers. Joining me today in this conversation in check is none other than the captain of our ship here at ARM, the president and CEO who has served more than 15 years as a pastor and also has been an attorney for over 25 years. He has a BA in religion and

Hunter Pettis (: 02:28

It goes without saying, a JD. He is licensed to practice in law in Texas and was board certified in personal injury trial law by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization from 1997 to 2012. He is the first actually in his family to obtain a college degree. And he is the husband and father of three daughters and is our guest on today's episode. Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce to you Mr. James Weingarten.

James, thank you. It's a pleasure. So James, as we begin to dive into this conversation, I'd like as best as possible for our audience sake to set the foundation. You and I both know, as well as our audience know, that throughout scripture, we see stories of people facing incredible, for sake of conversation, we'll call it risk. But one thing I've noticed is that faith in these stories is never passive. And also the responses are

Thank you, Hunter.

Hunter Pettis (: 03:27

rarely if ever reckless. So from your perspective and your years as a pastor, could you share your thoughts on how faith and preparation work together in the Bible?

Yes, let's talk about that. Different people had different callings and some of those callings seem more risky than others. You think about Moses leaving Egypt. Both times he left Egypt, there was a lot of risk involved. One time, he's a single guy leaving Egypt by himself, striking out into the wilderness. Who knows?

what he's going to expect. Who knows how that's going to work for him. And then the second time he goes with his enormous band and they head out and they know they're going to face challenges. How are you going to feed? How are you going to clothe? How are you going to water this enormous group estimated somewhere between half a million and three million. That's, that's a pretty large band. Interestingly, that one just required an awful lot of faith. They didn't take enough.

food or the whole trip. And so God had to miraculously feed them. The first time he went out, he probably had some cash in his pocket and the ability to work and earn and do what he needed to do it. He ultimately became a shepherd out in Sinai. And so we're asked to do things and those things include risk.

And that really famous story that you alluded to in terms of, Entrustment. Jesus tells that the master was about to leave town and he gave one 10, one five. the message of the story is that if you don't risk it, you're the healer of the story. So the first two actually risked it, competent, appropriate, healthy risk. What's the word? Assessed, understood risk. And they doubled their.

James Winegardner (: 05:31

investment and the one didn't want to risk and he buried it and he winds up again being scorned in the story. So we have to take risks. We're asked to take risks, but not blind risks. Those guys, they were the stewards of the master stewards, safe keepers and trustors. Trustees is what they really were. Those trustees had the opportunity. They could have done crazy stuff, but it looks like they took measured risk, appropriate, healthy.

knowledge, prepared and measured risk.

I, I, I, I'm always amazed by that particular parable of the talents. it's one thing, one of those stories that really stood out to me as a kid. And I think it, it speaks heavily to a few different areas of our life, whether you could even take it to consider investments, if you will. But I think it's also a great story to make a connection when you're talking about the idea of managing risk. Which you've definitely, swore well about.

I know we could easily go through a lot of the stories in the Bible talking about here, the parable of the talents we've briefly mentioned, even Noah and Moses. One other story that if, if we will kind of briefly talk about is just the story of Esther. Is there anything from your perspective that you think we could clean from the story of Esther and learn about risk from her story?

Obviously, she did some interesting things that we have to wonder about. It's always, I always compare and contrast Esther with the Worthys in the fiery permit of Daniel. Those guys said, Hey, we're Hebrews and you know, we're, we're going to do it this way. This is the way we only way we could do it. We can't do that other way. We can't do your way.

James Winegardner (: 07:25

and they stood up and took huge risk and the risk was a path to certain death. And then God miraculously delivered them from certain death. Then we take the Esther story and Esther hides the fact that she's a Hebrew, hides the fact that her family is destined to be killed, hides all that from the king and his people. And then she is called

to do something and out of whole cloth, she creates a something to do, which is really interesting because the boys, they didn't have to use any imagination at all. They just said, we're not bound down. She had to use some imagination. What are you going to do to save your people? And, and it's one of the most interesting parts of the story. And it's, can't write you is not what the story is about. Esther's creativity was not the gen, the, the, the essence, message of that story. But I think it's a really interesting part of the story because

Here's Esther, Mordecai and the gang says, you need to fix this. And she doesn't know how to fix it. So she asks everybody to fast and pray to give her wisdom to know what to do. And then she takes not one, but a series of calculated risks. The first risk that we see her take is to walk in and risk death by going into the king. But that's only the first one. She could have been.

completely unimaginative and say, King, there's a law that you sign that's going to have me killed. And that would have been one way to approach that. Most of us who lack imagination would have done just that. But because of the fasting, the prayer and the imagination, she was given a much more complicated risk involving three nights of parties, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Dinners, private dinners that some might even call it a manipulation, you know, right? A setup and then bringing down the hammer.

So it's a beautiful story of God giving her a gift of imaginative response and a series of risks rather than a single one.

Hunter Pettis (: 09:35

And oftentimes that's usually how risks present themselves. Sometimes it's not just one thing, it's a myriad of things. And I think ultimately, I agree with you when I say that it's, I like to think of it as a clear balance between faith and preparation. Even when we double back, you know, with Noah building the ark, there's an immense amount of faith and preparation that came with that story.

the servants managing their talents. Again, you see faith and preparation. Even Esther standing before the king, you can still find some applications of faith and preparation, which kind of makes an easy segue for for my next question for you regarding faith and preparation, because we are ultimately here to to manage the risks that are associated with the ministries that we have here throughout the church. If you don't mind, I'd like

for us to kind of speak to the practical side of things. And so how do you see these principles of applying that faith and preparation and ultimately how we can manage risk in our ministries and our church communities?

The church and school are the two big things that we do. In the church, we also do a part of church. do evangelism, we do worship, we do Bible study, and then we do ministries related to needs. So food ministries, care ministries, different things like that. All of those are associated with risk. If you really want to core it down, one of the greatest risks we do is schools and camps. Schools and camps are just risk buckets.

Right. Because we're taking defenseless, vulnerable people, and people who may be judgment impaired. They're certainly incompetent in the legal sense because they're typically children. Right. So we're taking those people and we're taking them away from their parents, putting them under our supervision, control and responsibility. And that's a pretty risky maneuver.

James Winegardner (: 11:48

But the other side of it that you keep pointing out is the preparation. The fact is that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is pretty good at running school. We have our system divides us down into conferences, and I guess there's some unions that actually also operate schools, but mostly it's conferences that own and operate schools. And we do it with a series of people we call education superintendents. Conferences and unions have education superintendents. And those people have

A whole, I won't call it a curriculum, that'd be the wrong word, but have a whole, a whole learning center of how we do that in a way that will be as safe as possible while still incurring the risk that it takes to actually execute the function. So think about taking children away from their parents and being responsible for them. There, you know, the jokes are replete about babysitter stories, right? Because.

babysitter and you know, there's even movies out there they've made about things that could happen when you babysit children. We as a church babysit children all the time. And we do more. We inculcate the learning of these students. And so those are huge things, but we've got decades, even over a century of experience of running Seventh-day Adventist schools. And we've learned from every mistake. We've learned from every

other people's mistakes in the public school systems, in the other Christian school system. And we've built on that to have a system of running schools. Now, when your local church says, well, we'd like to have a school. And you say, well, okay, here's how you do it. And they go, man, that seems like a lot of work, a lot of money. Maybe there's a shortcut. Maybe there's another way to do it. And that's where the risk really doesn't meet with preparation, but meets with experimentation.

And that becomes an issue. And we've seen that go badly many times. And that's why I know it's hard, it's really hard to swallow the pill and say, if you want a church, it's going to cost this. We have to hire these people. We have to have this facility. We have to have that. That's the level of preparation that it takes to, with any level of safety to operate a school. And you have to just swallow a pill and say, yes, we want a good school. Therefore it's going to cost that.

Hunter Pettis (: 14:10

Absolutely. I agree with you when you say that we have, we do a great job and a phenomenal job to those out there that are running the schools. And it does, doesn't go without any merit. I know it definitely has its own challenges and every now and then it could be an uphill battle.

or daily, but yes, that's right.

Yes, or daily. For our listeners sake, some of them, may have had some experience with risk management. They may have been doing it for a few years now. And then for others, may be their first go round, if you will. They're just getting started in it. You and I probably can speak about this ad nauseum, but I guess at a base level, I would kind of pose the question is what are some of the

more common risk that our faith church, sorry, our faith, our church face today. And I guess some places that they can start to practice that, preparation side of things that we would.

Sure. Our schools are an obvious one and we just mentioned those. But if we operate our schools in the professional way that we know we should operate our schools, you know, we can mitigate most of the risks. There are still risks. You can never tell by interviewing whether a teacher that you hire is going to turn out to be a bad apple. Right. So you can't mitigate all risks. But in the churches, for instance, there's a lot of risky things that we do.

James Winegardner (: 15:42

Some of we should be doing it. Some of them we shouldn't. you know, it's, it's kind of a risk, interestingly, to open your doors to the public because people are going to come in people who have good sense and people who may be mentally challenged, people who may have emotional problems. And so every time we open our churches, our facilities to the public, we are opening ourselves to risk.

I remember some years ago we were in the middle of worship service and I always used to tell the praise singers, you your job is to sing, lift God up, lift the people up to God in music. preaching will come later. So we appreciate if you don't do the preaching because sometimes praise singers like to preach a little bit, right? Yes. And so we heard somebody out there preaching. In fact, they weren't just preaching. were making an appeal for prayer.

And I was backstage getting ready to come out, you know, and I looked up and I said, well, we don't know that guy, do we? And it was a man who was mentally, emotionally challenged and he had just walked up to the praise team and like his hand out, praise singer gave him the microphone and he began his altar call. Now the people in the church didn't know that that wasn't planned. And so they started coming forward. Whenever you open your doors to the public, strange things can happen. That worked out all right.

You know, it worked out just fine and we were able to help him actually to get kind of back on the path that he needed to with his medication. But that kind of thing happens. The other thing we do now we're prepared for that because we do that worship every week. We have professionals that are helping with it. We have a lot of experience and preparation, but there are other things we do that we may have less preparation for. Hey, let's have a church work bee. What's a work bee?

Well, it's a uniquely Christian experience where everybody comes out to do maintenance and cleaning. Well, what does that look like? If it's just maintenance and cleaning, most of us have a good experience in preparation to be maintenance and cleaner. We tighten this and we polish that. But if it involves cutting trees, there's a reason that there's a profession called arborist.

James Winegardner (: 18:07

These trees that weigh many tons are very dangerous and can kill people and have killed people and have put out eyes and have broken arms and all that sort of thing. So when that sort of thing is part of the work bee, it's really good to hire an arborist because they are prepared for that risk. And many, if not most, if not all of our church members are not.

professional arborist and they're not prepared for that risk. Do we want to put a chainsaw in the hands of somebody? That's a really important question, especially if there are other people around. If the person knows how to use a chainsaw and they're doing it on a small scale and a safe scale and relatively, that's one thing. But another is to have non-professional arborists go out and cut down a 30 foot tree. That's a very different situation. Have church members crawl up in addicts.

Have church members do electrical work. Have church members install things on the roof. These are all things that we're not necessarily prepared to do as a church member, church members. If they want to do that at their house, you know, at my house, I don't do that. My wife has forbid me going on the roof. She says there are professionals that go on roofs and you're an older gentleman. And if you go on a roof, you're liable to fall off that roof. And so she says no roofs for you.

I would like to do some things on my roof, but she recognized that I'm not prepared for that. I'm not the guy to go on the roof. And there are guys that go on roof. And we should recognize that in our churches too. There things we're prepared for and things we're unprepared for. And we ought to embark on those things that were unprepared.

Yeah, I bring up an amazing point James, one that we see pretty often that walking that fine line or that tightrope, if you will, of doing things that are grounded in faith or lack of better words, the Lord will provide, or we work on volunteer work a lot of times as opposed to going the professional route. I know that that can be challenging, especially when you're talking about things from church. It would be nice if, Hey, James.

James Winegardner (: 20:16

expect.

has experience in cutting down trees, he can do it for a fraction of the cost. So you can do it for free. Why not have him do it as opposed to reaching out to an actual service? Those those things can be challenging. And I could see arguments for both sides, but as a risk from a risk management standpoint of in this may be hopefully it's not a fastball question for you. But how how would

From your perspective, how would you recommend people, church leaders, I should say, ensuring that their decisions about risk management, not only are they grounded in faith, they're, but they're genuinely practical. That it's what makes sense is what's keeping the assets that they've been entrusted with safe in the best way possible.

So there are a lot of those decisions that are already made. The conference is going to counsel the church. If the church decides they're going to open some sort of a shady fly by night school, right? The conference is going to say, no, that's not the way we do schools. You really need to have professionals involved. So those kind are my policy and they're pretty easy. But the others, the ones we were just kind of mentioning are kind of an easy example. You know, sometimes we just don't think about those risks. They're there, but we don't...

think about them and we don't think about them sometimes because at home we're kind of foolhardy. We're kind of, yeah, I I'll cut down a tree at my house. Well, I actually have five or six trees at my house that are over 25 feet tall that are dead and I've looked at those and I thought I could...

James Winegardner (: 21:55

And fortunately, my wife says don't do that. But the really interesting way for me to assess that as an amateur is one thing. We have a gift that we have now that we didn't have 30 years ago. Go to YouTube and type tree cutting fail. Yeah, okay. Now.

That will deter you from taking high risks. And if you want to do electrical fails, whatever you're planning to do at your church work, be just type into YouTube that word and fails. And it will deter you from doing that. The next one is you mentioned something very interesting. There's a guy at our church that does be cutting. He's a member of the church. Well, that's a whole different experience, isn't it? He comes then in that case with his professional expertise.

with his own insurance, with his own tools, with his own experience and preparation. And there is nothing wrong with hiring the church member to do what he's a professional at doing. Right? Right. The problem is hiring me to cut your tree or asking me for free to cut your tree because I'm not a tree cutter. I've watched lots of videos. I think I could do it. Honestly, I think I could do it. But a lot of

People who are now dead thought they could do it too. And bad things happen when you're dealing with multi-ton pieces of falling matter. So that's true of electricity, excuse me, and many other items like that. I cannot tell you the number of church members who have walked on the ceiling joist and fallen through either a drop ceiling or a drywall ceiling.

and injured themselves and it costs the church money and it derails ministry because that's not what we do not what we do at all so think about our core ministry what do we do that's what we're prepared to do pastors know how to prepare to preach they know how to prepare a worship service i mean we go to school for that right we know how to do all these things

James Winegardner (: 24:11

But we don't take classes in chainsaw. We don't take classes in climbing and ceilings. And even though some of us may have had a prior career that did some of that, when was the last time you did it?

Yeah. I, that's a great example. think although comical seeing the, the fail sometimes even seeing the ones who do it right, they make it seem a lot easier than, it really actually turns out to be. You quickly find out, man, they made it look so easy. Yeah. I am trying to do it and it's not really working out.

You know, I'm a really, really good house painter in my mind. Yes. Never looks that good when I do it in real life. So hiring a professional even to paint your house is probably the right answer because I can paint a wall, but it never looks like the professional.

Yeah, and that's that's how I feel about cars sometimes I feel like I'm the master mechanic and then once I run into something that's taken me three hours, which the YouTube video was 15 minutes, which I'm sure they could edit it down, but it makes it seem like, man, this, this project shouldn't have taken anywhere near the amount of time.

Now there are unavoidable risks. So let's talk about Adventist Community Services for a minute. Adventist Community Services helps in times of disaster. And those are risky things. You're walking into flood zones, wind damage zones, trees are falling all around you. know, that sort of electrical wires are dangling and sparking and those things. That's why we don't just say, hey, Hunter, you want to go help with the disaster relief?

James Winegardner (: 25:51

What we do is say, Hunter, we're training for disaster relief on Tuesday. There's no disaster right now, but we'd really like you to be prepared when the next disaster comes. And so Adventist Community Services would love to have our church members prepare now for the risk to be faced in the future. And how many, how many disaster relief trained people does Adventist Community Services need? All of us. Right? I mean, any of us who are able bodied and able to help in that.

We ought to be doing that. We ought to be taking those trainings. So when the hurricane does come to a town near you, the Adventist Community Services can count on you to minister to those people who are suffering with loss. And so preparing for that is absolutely part of, and we would be foolhardy again, if we said, hey, church, let's go help in the disaster relief. Anybody know anything about electricity? Let's go. You know, no.

We have to train first and that's Adventist Community Service does that year round. They do training so that people are qualified to go and do that risky work when that work needs to be done.

I would definitely say mission work is one of the clearest examples of faith and preparation working together. You know, whether you're sending missionaries to remote areas, you're starting a new ministry, even something as simple as, well not simple as you could say, but even when you're hosting in in evangelistic event, that's missionary work and faith and preparation working together. A lot of, so my next question kind of James is I know a lot of times we focus on things here domestically and local.

It's easy for all of us to kind of pigeonhole ourselves and just focus on our own little ecosystem. But sometimes we often forget that the Adventist Church is worldwide. We're a worldwide ministry. From your perspective and from your seat, could you just speak into how we can and should we approach risk management as mission work for the worldwide church? Because again, sometimes we focus on just our own area and miss the mark and don't realize the domino effect.

Hunter Pettis (: 28:00

our actions to the rest of organization.

There are lot of different cultures that we do ministry in. And it's really interesting to me that I was talking to some people from Adria yesterday and they tell me, and this is really important, that the first rule is if you can train locals to do the work, it's going to be better because they know the culture, they know the environment, they know the way things work there, they know the people.

They know the people they're serving. And so, you know, there has been a kind of a colonial overtone to ancient vintage of mission work. Honestly, most of the world, we have local Adventists who can do that kind of work. Now we have a beautiful university in Lebanon and they don't have the local Seventh-day Adventists teach at that university. So there's a need in some of those cases for.

people from overseas to go there. But again, how do you manage those risks? We do it by preparing. And if there are bombs falling in Lebanon, we don't send anybody in there right now. If there are, if there are fears and concerns in the hearts of the people who working there, we bring them home. And then the other is just the safety practices. Safety practices are different in different places. But one of the things we can do as missionaries or as a missionary work.

is that we can extend the best practices of safety, security, preparation, et cetera, to the places as we go. Again, there are places where people think nothing of climbing tall trees to do this and that and the other, but safety lines are an important part of climbing anything tall, right? And the safety lines are an inexpensive safety solution, properly managed.

James Winegardner (: 30:03

That that's a technology we can export and that we can help to say, hey, there's a safer way of doing that. And so we can export our safety and our preparedness to other people in other parts of the world as well, without becoming colonial, you know, with, with the sensitivity to their cultures and they can that in return be sensitive to our cultures. So yeah, we can carry our cultures over.

But also we got to respect those cultures and know that those people know what they're doing in their area and they've been doing it for a long time. They don't need our help. They just need the permission to do.

Hunter Pettis (: 30:56

I think that sums it up. Packages it perfectly. It's not every day that you have the opportunity to sit down with the president and CEO of any company, if you will, but let alone ARM. I hope that for our listeners, we've been able to begin to get the gears turning and realize how to carry yourselves and actively explore the idea of faith and preparation, how it works together, not only from a biblical perspective.

but a practical one as well on how churches can manage their risk in their ministry and apply principles in their own areas.

And what we've had here is a meta discussion. I want to be clear that I don't know that there are any actual scriptures in the Bible that talk about risk management per se. We have extrapolated a meta analysis of some Old Testament experiences in which risk was treated and we can use that as an example and look at it, right? And then some New Testament stuff.

There are kind of three concepts in the New Testament that I think address risk. Again, from a distance, this is not the meaning of the text. But one is the one we've talked about, that the kind of concept of stewardship. Jesus tells a number of parables about stewardship, about trustees, and about entrusting. And everything we do in a church is entrusting because I don't own the church, you don't own the church, none of the members own the church.

church and we're entrusted with it for a time. And so we're entrusted with a physical plant. We're entrusted with certain ministries. We're entrusted with the people. And so these assets are entrusted to us for a time. The second scriptural experience is that time that the disciples ask their crazy question, who's going to be best in the kingdom? And Jesus said, yeah, yeah, yeah. So don't worry about who's going to be best because

James Winegardner (: 32:57

You may not make it to the kingdom unless you become like a little child. And then he brings the child and he says, look, here's the little child. And this is a vulnerable person. And this is a person that's vulnerable to having their faith destroyed. And he says, if you are responsible for destroying this person's faith, it's better for you first to be drowned in the deep depth of the sea involuntarily to get caught up in.

destroying this child's faith. So the second one, after the first meta-analysis of stewardship, second meta-analysis is that we're responsible for not hurting, chasing away vulnerable people from the faith by bad behavior, bad activity. And so that's number two. And then the third one, and this is really overarching and I hope that we can, I could bring it to clarity, but we use concepts in Christianity that don't

necessarily make sense to anybody else. And we use the term save, save, God saves us. Saved is not a term that we use that way outside of Christianity, right? It wouldn't make any sense. What does that mean? And what it means is to be the better translation of the word might be in modern English would be rescued.

rescued or Found is the other meaning of the word but found doesn't really make any sense there, right? So it's rescued when when Peter starts sinking in the water and he yells Lord save me help me he's looking for rescue and so when we say the word savior we mean rescuer and Rescuer is exactly what we're looking towards what we're expecting

from Jesus and he absolutely enjoys us to be saviors to one another, to rescue one another. so part of risk management is the concept of rescue. It's the ultimate Christian concept is rescue. And we should be rescuing, lifting up, finding, saving each other in meaningful

James Winegardner (: 35:17

physical ways, delivering each other from a risk of eternal death toward the certainty of eternal life.

That's powerful, Gene. That's really powerful. Rescuing. I like that concept. I think even for myself, that's something that I'm going to carry forward. I've never thought about it that way. And I think for our listeners, I think that that gives a nice call to action. For our listeners, I actually do want to challenge you, whatever areas of ministry to benefit from a closer look at risk management. You know, are there steps that you can take today to prepare more wisely or stored more faithfully?

to rescue. Wow, that's that really stands out for me. But whatever steps it is, take the net. Take that first step as we begin to wrap up. I just want to thank you so much, James. I think that was a great way to to put the bowl on it, if you will. I'm your sort. Your insights have definitely been practical.

And I think deeply encouraging, not only for myself, but I hope the same for our listeners. One thing that I want to do a little bit differently that we haven't done on previous episodes. And I asked James to, I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit, but could you lead us in prayer?

Sure, absolutely. Let's pray. Our Father, our God, we ask that our churches, our members, our people, our colleagues, our friends, our families, will be aware, aware of who is out there that needs your message of how it is that your truth, your rescue can come to their ears, to their...

James Winegardner (: 36:58

hearts to their lives and that how we can participate in that in ways that are appropriate, prepared, healthy, holy, and empowered by your spirit. Please transform us into associate saviors to help others to rescue, to help others to in the safest possible ways.

to be drawn into a family experience in your kingdom because we know that's the ultimate goal of the mission that we have taken on in this church. Forgive us of our sins and give us the opportunity now to serve you worthily, we ask in Jesus' name, amen. Amen.

Amen. James, thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone who's joined us today. If you found this conversation meaningful, please share it with others who might benefit. You can do so. This podcast is available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, as well as Amazon music. We also have a new podcast page on our website at AdventistRisk.com. If you hover over safety resources tab and then select

Let's talk solutions podcast. can hear every episode we've done any episode we will do in the future. So feel free to share that whole page. In the meantime, please remember that faith and preparation are not opposites. They are partners. So together they help us honor God and navigate the risk of life with confidence until next time. Stay faithful and stay prepared. hope you found our podcast today informative.

and that you are equipped for your ministry in a new way. Please don't forget to share the podcast with your friends and fellow ministry leaders. That helps get our information to the people who need it most. As always, we would love to see your feedback and suggestions on our social media channels. God bless and see you next time.